Dual Drive Gear Extruder Upgrade + E Steps on Ender 3
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This is a CR 10s Pro it’s a 550
to 600 dollar printer this is an Ender three you can buy one of these for under
$200 this has a dual gear drive to push the filament this has a single gear
drive with an idler but did you know you can buy that dual gear drive and put it
on Ender three well we’re gonna try that I’ll show you how to install it how to
calibrate it and is it even worth it on today’s Filament Friday Filament Friday is
brought to you by these patreon supporters here’s a standard extruder on
Ender three it’s got a gear and an idler wheel and the whole frame is made out of
plastic here’s the dual drive a drive on both sides and an all metal frame and
actually a stronger spring this is the one I’m going to use I bought this off
of amazon.com I’ll put a link to it in the description below along with links
to other locations where you can get the same extruder here’s the close-up of how
it works it grips on both sides of the filament and they’re geared so they turn
together so the first thing I want to do is set a baseline so I need to measure
100 millimeters of filament so between these two marks is 100 millimeters next
I’m actually going to take off the PTFE tube because I want to try this with no
resistance no hot end no PTFE tube nothing so I’m just going to push
filament through you can see the little marks and I’m gonna line that up so
first mark is right at the beginning and then 100 millimeters later is the second
mark in order for the machine to move any filament it has to be preheated even
if we’re not connected to the hot end so I heated it up to 185 degrees C and then
I go into the prepare move axis menu down to extruder select 10 millimeters
crank it up to a hundred and then let this thing run and now it’s been pushing
the filament through you can see the dot on the left and the hundred millimeter
on the right and it stops right at the hundred millimeter mark and that’s
because I’ve got my machine tuned if you go into control motion and steps per
millimeter you’ll see the e steps this is how many steps
the stepper motor has to go to move 100 millimeters some of the early machines
didn’t have this but all the latest ender threes and if you’ve upgraded to
the silent board you have this on your menu now I’m going to screw the PTFE
tube back into the extruder and then we’re going to push some filament
through and through the hot end I’ll measure out another hundred millimeters
between the two marks and I’m actually gonna push this filament until that
first mark is lined up so you can see the filaments losing out as I do it now
I’ll go to the prepare move access extruder ten millimeters crank up one
hundred millimeters again and then we’re gonna let this thing around and see how
close we get so here it is moving and if I let this run out it’ll stop at some
point now we’re at 185 degrees C here and you can see it stops way short like
24 millimeters short of where I would expect it to be so let’s crank this up
to a higher temperature I’m gonna go to 205 which is typically what I print it
with this filament see how close we get so let’s try it again at 205 now 100
millimeters push it into starting point let it run and it stops pretty close but
not perfect right there so we’re looking at about six millimeters so clearly
there’s some slippage going on as soon as we had the PTFE tube and hot in it’s
slipping on the gear but at 185 degrees C it’s like 24 millimeters of slippage
and 205 it’s only six millimeters of slippage so let’s try the other extruder
so let me show you how to remove this the first step is to take the filament
out and I’m gonna take the screw off of the bracket or the arm and in the spring
and then I’m gonna disconnect the PTFE tubing and pull the wiring harness off
the clip and then there’s a screw at the front here take that off and then
there’s one at the back corner take that off you have to disconnect the motor
from the wiring harness it just pulls out and there’s one last screw that
holds the motor and now you can remove the motor and the last piece of the
extruder here’s the kit that I bought I’ll put a link to this in the
description below it is a kit so you have to assemble it so let me show you
how this works eventually we’ll get to this where the
two pieces drive the filament on both sides and the motor turns the idler gear
the first thing I did was put the screw into the bracket this will actually be
the adjustment screw for the tension on the spring and then there’s a screw that
goes into the arm and this will actually hold the spring in place there’s an
insert that goes into the arm that goes in here and it is a tall screw that goes
into that insert and then this arm will mount to the bracket like this and screw
into the motor and then the spring will go between the arm and the bracket now
we got to remove the gear from the motor there’s two set screws to take it off
the new one has one set screw so you want to make sure that set screw goes on
the flat side of the motor shaft now we’re ready to assemble so you bring the
base of the new extruder to the machine and tighten the first screw to the motor
then tighten the second one on the right front don’t tighten that one all the way
and in the background don’t quite tighten that one all the way it gives
you a little wiggle room next we want to adjust the gear so it lines up with the
filament then we can bring in the arm put that in position and tighten it in
place now go back and tighten those other two screws and back out the
tension screw this insert goes into the spring and then the spring pops over the
screw on the arm and pops into the tension location then tighten the
tension screw until you start to see the spring turn
readjust the arm screw so it’s tight but still loose enough to move back and
forth and we’re ready to test I marked two spots hundred millimeters apart I
set to extrude it to extrude 100 millimeters so it starts extruding and
let’s see how close it gets not too close it’s way off thirty millimeters so
we need to adjust the Estep so we take the hundred millimeters we expect – the
30 millimeters we measure divide that into the hundred millimeters and n times
the east steps and we get one thirty five point five seven so we need to
change re steps to 135 point five seven so how do you do that you go into the
control menu and then you go into motion and then you go into steps per
millimeter at the bottom and then you go all the way to the bottom of that you
had the e steps per millimeter one thirty five point five six say I’ve
already changed it you want to go to the control menu store
settings click on it and that’ll save that setting come back to another
hundred millimeters I started the extruder to extrude 100 millimeters and
here’s where we’re at now after the change to the east steps you can see our
almost perfect so we’re gonna go with it now we need to change the coupling on
this guy to the big coupling it came with it and put the PTFE tube in place
so now we can test it with actual filament
there’s even a locking clip for it so I marked 100 millimeters of filament I set
it 285 degrees C it’s extruding and this is where it stopped so if I measure this
or six millimeters short of perfect much better than the other extruder 185 let’s
see what it does at 205 so a 205 degrees C the filament has gone through we’re
just waiting for it to stop this is the second mark and then we can measure and
there it stopped and if I measure six millimeters same thing we got at 185
degrees C so now let’s do a comparison 185 degrees C you can see the stock
extruder slips a lot more than this double gear drive but what about at 205
at twelve five percent really the same they’re both stopping six millimeters
short that seemed to be a standard slippage six millimeters short of what I
expected but what I liked is it’s the same on the metal one
whether it’s 205 or 185 so now we can recalculate if I use the six millimeters
I can get a new estep of 144 point two and with those new e steps that should
compensate for the slippage so here’s a test that’s the second mark and sure
enough it stops right where I want it so essentially zero error as far as print
quality I’m not seeing a major difference between the dual extruder and
my original extruder when I compare prints but I’m happy with the results
and now I’ve got consistent flow that I can trust so maybe I can make some more
improvements within the slicer settings but right now the printing about equal
so isn’t worth it well based on what I’ve seen getting that consistent push
no matter the temperature is a definite advantage it gives you consistent flow
and therefore smoother prints so I think it’s worth putting on under three spend
you consider it’s on a $600 printer that you can put on the sub $200 printer for
not a lot of added cost and it’s metal so it’s going to last longer than the
plastic one that comes on the under three now having said that I did notice
somewhere underneath the gear so heavy grease under there is highly recommended
but overall I think it’s an improvement if you like what I’m doing here maybe
check out some of the videos that are popping up if you want to help support
the channel patreon is one way or by thru the affiliate links in the description
below and if nothing else click on that CHEP logo and subscribe I’ll see you
next time right here at Filament Friday
Chuck, this has to be the best video you’ve done to date! Extremely easy to understand, complete information from beginning to end, and a great topic! Keep up the awesome work!
Can Somebody tell me if the filament exit hole on this all metal extruder head has the same z height as the original? Or does it expell the fillament on a higher z coordinate due to the higher gears?
I'm asking because I converted my ender 3 to direct extruder with the original extruder. Changing the height of the extruder exit point would mean it would not fit my hotend anymore
What about TPU filament?
Brilliant informative video as always. For $15 this is a no brainer upgrade over the stock plastic extruder. Thanks just purchased one.
That was extremely usefull for me, good work Chuck
have a nice weekend
looking at the corners of the result test cubes it looks like you would benefit from enabling linear advance.
Chep, those dual drive gear extruders are often included as a "free gift" on the ebay Ender 3 printer listings so if people are buying an Ender 3 then it is worth looking out for. Although sometimes the free bit cost a couple of dollars more than the listing without. But still normally cheaper then buying it afterwards as an upgrade.
Been using this extruder, initially I thought it was okay but after a couple of weeks I don't rate it at all
Did you up the temp over 205? I would see what 210 to 220 would do.
I added the bondtech extruder to my cr10 and love it .
Excellent.
Chep did you know Klipper firmware ?
does anyone have a link where to buy a replacement wiring harness for the ender 3? thank you!
thank you chep ! please try the ender 5 plus
No more EZstruder?
half of the issue with the dual drive extruder from creality is the needle bearing supplied only runs half the length of the gear allowing for a lot of play when filament is being pushed. I added a second bearing to mine which has greatly reduced the play and in turn wear on the extruder. I suspect this could be part of the reason there is still some slipping on the dual drive on in this case but without testing myself I couldn't confirm.
Thank you Chuck!!
Another great video! I'm trying to get my head around the e-step/flow/temp relationship, I didn't realise temp effected extrusion volume so much till I changed filament and tried printing at 190. I thought that if we want to print at a lower temp with the same e-step the flow has to be increased, not had success on adjusting flow rate to get 100% extrusion, any tips?
Great information Chuck! I'm glad you adjusted the esteps in the end for actual amount factoring in slippage etc. Many people don't and and up confused and problematic. Would be interesting to change your ptfe to captubes and recalculate steps.
Great upgrade video, Chuck! I've been getting under-extrusion since I got my Ender 3 and am slowly zeroing it in to perfection with your help! You, Teaching Tech, Maker's Muse, CNC Kitchen and some others that I'm forgetting at the moment have been incredibly awesome in tuning this great machine! Thank you!
Thanks for explaining the esteps. I have heard them before but I didn't know how to tune that in. I just got a cr10s5 and really been wanting to tune it in before I start on some multi-day print jobs.
My dual drive extruder started to grind metal it was so tight and clicking so i switched to maroon extruder it works fine now
Does it work with flexible filament 20D / 40D?
Is there any backlash or play between the two meshing gears?
love your videos.. I just upgraded all three of mine with the metal version of the stock extruder. wish I had known there was a dual gear version. I didn't think there was that much slippage, good to know about tuning the e-steps
I tried this for a while on my ender 3, but took it off. In fact, I returned the first one I bought because the idler tightened up during a long print and eventually jammed. Taking it apart, I found that it had only one needle bearing (the listing shows 2, which should be stacked one on top of the other (that's the way it is on my Prusa's Bondtech gears). I returned it saying missing part, and reordered it, and the reordered one also only has one needle bearing. That coupled with the inability to put a knob on it makes me want to keep looking. I may try the EZR next or a direct drive conversion.
BTW, when I do e-step calibration, I measure 120mm, and extrude 100. This allows you to still measure even if it goes past 100mm (e.g. you told it to extrude 100, and it did 107). You have to subtract the 20mm in calculating how far it actually went, but I like this method. I do like your test of loaded (through the hotend) and unloaded. Thanks for another great video.
Dude never though to check loaded versus unloaded!!
Also never could figure out what that little bit was for that you put in the spring! Thanks!
the advantage is what you discovered. consistent results. ALSO should behave better with flexible since the filament won't be "torqued" one way or the other by a one sided gear drive!!
When using a .2 nozzle it would be great.
My extruder completely jammed with filament this week, bought the aftermarket one right before it happened. Great timing I guess. I seriously cannot get the filament out of it still. I have no idea what is going on. It is just jammed, no idea why it cant come out. It basically will require more force to push it out than the plastic mold can take. Maybe heat would help, but this extruder is better 10 fold.
The spring that comes with that extruder is too strong you have to use the old extruder spring
I think I may just have to order one when I get home
The orange spring that comes with the extruder is the wrong type for this extruder, I've had this extruder for awhile and I'm currently using it as direct drive. Works great but comes with the wrong parts
The spring tension adjustment doesn't work because the spring is the wrong type. You need to use the spring from the original extruder. That's also why the arm is grinding into the base. And you had an issue with slipping. The orange spring puts alot of unnecessary load on the motor and is not good for it in my opinion. Just use the original spring and use the tension adjustment.
Dual grip is nice but imo to get any decent performance you really need a reduction gear like the BMG, or Titans.
It says Steps per Millimeter. And not per 100mm. Just my 2 cents. And btw. For what is that Dual Drive Gear good? My Ender works perfekt with a single gear. Ok, if you wanna use flexible filaments. But then, it is much better to change to a direct drive extruder.
Just wanted to say that your videos are amazing! I go straight to your channel whenever I need a solution, or want to find out what's new in the 3d printing world. Keep up the amazing work!
What do you think of the cr-20 vs the cr-10 mini? Would love to know as I will be shopping for one soon.
Chuck… killing it
Nice video CHEP!!! Thanks for share!! 😄😊
I'm wondering if that 6mm has anything to do with an automatic retract.
USE THE 3.14 PIE
I just replaced the extruder with a metal one and it was a paINdaass to adjust the idler again. This video would have been useful hahaha Now it will be in the future
Since I ordered Upgraded Long-Distance Remote Metal Extruder- kit from BangG few weeks ago, and got wrong metal parts instead (mirror image from pictured product) and customer service is reluctant to even reply to me…. This seems like a good option to consider.
For that price I'd rather buy a bmg clone
Thanks for this, I just found that my Ender 3 was soooo way off when it comes to Esteps. No wonder I had to keep making the flow set to 155 every time I start a print. Adjusted Esteps to 237.50 mm and now I just print without any changes in configuration anymore. Great video!
The stock plastic extruder is flimsy, but you are kind of comparing apples to oranges here comparing the soft brass gears of the original extruder with the stainless steel gears of the upgraded extruder. The design of the gears is also different – the brass original has protruding gear teeth, while the upgraded gears have valleys with the notches cut into them. I installed a similar single drive gear metal extruder on my Ender 3, and still had frequent slippage until I upgraded that to stainless gears. I believe I wore down the brass gears on my Ender 3's original brass extruder gears just from printing a full roll of filament with metallic particles in it. The major Chinese vendors carry the stainless gears for cheap – worth getting a small bag just to have on hand. Best wishes.
Hi! Thank you for your videos! They are always very helpfull and interesting!
My printer is a CR-10mini and I don´t have the MOTION-Menu in my system. How can i adapt the Steps/mm in this case?
Did you already tried to built a duoble noozle on the CR10-Mini? Could it work?
Thank you very much!
Excellent video. I now understand E-steps. Would be nice to see this same test done with the EZR extruder.
It looks that the other needle bearing, inside the pressure lever gear, might be missing. The one I got had only one bearing in, caused inaccurate feeding.
Bmg clone of some type?
Do the esteps really make a difference being to 2 decimal places vs just rounding it? (ie 135.57 vs 136)? I think just rounding them would work just the same. Am glad someone finally showed esteps with extruder alone vs extruder with the filament going through the nozzle. Most don't mention this when calculating esteps. Would be interesting to see how a bondtech would do to see if it's the same in either case.
that difference is due to poor hotend design, a good hotend has very low back pressure even at lower temps
How does this compare to the EZR when working with flexible filament… especially those at 85A
original steps is 140 for this extruder 😉
Please do tests with flex filament, thank you!
Have you used this with flexible filament like ninjaflex?
Hi Chuck, very good video, congrats for all what you are producing . For months I'm watching videos in order to be as well informed as I can before buying my first printer. But that made the decision only harder to take. Now the moment has come to purchase . Chuck, what should I buy, really ? I'm confused. thanks for the help.
Hi Chuck
The kit I got (Ebay) had the idler gear roller bearing running on the thread of the screw. The is not going to last very long and should be running on a smooth flat surface. I didn't install it yet because I want to find a better solution. If I can't find a screw with a long shoulder I will use a length of rod and thread the ends. Really like the idea of the dual drive gear setup especially for flexible materials.
Cheers
Willy
You should set your Esteps to a whole number. Marlin isn't going to command 0.22 of a step, just whole steps. So that 0.22 is going to accumulate. After about 5mm, it will command an extra step and that will show in the print. Round it down to 144 and you'll be better off.
Another thorough and quality video, clearing up FUD as usual… Thanks!!
Will this work with the Ender 5 Plus?
I just bought the Anicubic I3 Mega for my first printer due to its out of box performance and just wanted to say for somebody green like myself your channel has been the most informative and useful so thanks.
You should have triple the subscribers IMO.
Chep, I’m wondering if you contradicted yourself or perhaps I misunderstood? You said that the upgrade was worth it since consistent flow would make for better prints. However, you also mentioned that you saw no difference. Can you help me understand please?
I am getting an Ender 3, what should I do first when I get it?
if used on the cr10s v1. same procedure?
nice video chep
but its a lot easier to set the esteps from the terminal ( and a lot faster)
but again great video on how to tune steps and the way you showed with and with hotend is a great indication on what forces are needed to push the filament
My printer doesn't have the option to change the steps in the firmware. I replaced the extruder a few weeks ago and added the calibration correction in the Cura G-code but would really like to change it in the firmware. I know I will forget to add it in when the next Cura update is released. It would be nice to have it in the firmware so it is always there. I don't know how to change the Marlin code.
What do you think about a direct gear extruder? This will make you able to print flexible filament on your printer. I‘ve done it at my Cr-10s pro and also at my Artillery Sidewinder, it has already one, but it was too instable for me. A gear extruder made of Aluminium is state of the art. Just in my opinion…😂
Wow that means I have been saving filament all along thanks Creality! For not putting in a double extruder gear on my ender 3 pro
This extruder…noT the real dual drive extruder 😜✌️sorry …but this upgrade very useless (next time… use BMG extruder) 😁
Might as well get a proper Bmg
Mark 120 and extrude 100. Way easier to measure
your great
so you are inserting adjusted e-steps through hotend or extruding freely?
Chuck can this extruder be used with the PTFE insert inside the extruder housing that helps in printing Flexibles? I love the extruder mount that you did with this change but would like to find an all metal extruder mount plate that can do the same thing.
Your videos are awesome. Very informative. I do not own or have ever used a 3D printer but I have been thinking about getting one and have been watching a lot of videos and reading up. I would want one just simply to play around with. Make small objects and other items just for fun. You’ve done some great comparing videos but I wanted to get your opinion on which printer you would recommend for someone like me? I’m semi computer literate. I can figure stuff out and enjoy doing so. Thanks.
HI CHEP
I enjoy your videos very much and have just installed a knockoff geared drive on my CR10S as per your instructions. My printer has no way to adjust the steps in the menu and Cura has a fit when I tell it to over-extrude at 151% . I am trying a print at 150 to see how it goes. Any suggestions on adjusting the steps on a 10S?
Nice video, lots of good information. My kit came with two springs, the yellow on and a silver one like the one gear metal extruders come with.
Couldn't find any reference to the second spring anywhere. I am going to try it with the yellow spring and change it if there are problems.
Brillant video.
Thanks for the video Chuck. I wonder if it will fit also on my Cr 10 mini (should be the same as the old stock Cr 10) and of this might improve for flexible materials in comparison to the stock extruder?
Why is your screen and dial so responsive? Is that the new firmware? Is it the only firmware with the esteps?
CHEP, thank you for this video. I had followed some of your other video guides to print flexible filaments but didn't have any success with the printed extruder mod. I installed the dual gear drive extruder and went back and used your slicer settings and have successfully printed the octopus.
The stock extruder has a clip to hold the hot end wires. The upgrade doesn't. What did you do with the wires after your upgrade? How did you make up for the missing clip?
CR-10S Pro use the Genuine Bondtech Dual Drive Gear and not the clone, please note and thank you all.
I wish they would consider adding more color options for the anodized parts. I purposely went with the non-dual gear version because it came in black. People like to print upgrades and have certain color schemes for their printers. It would be nice to see Blue, Black, Green, and some other colors available.
I wish they would consider adding more color options for the anodized parts. I purposely went with the non-dual gear version because it came in black. People like to print upgrades and have certain color schemes for their printers. It would be nice to see Blue, Black, Green, and some other colors available.
I'm curious to see how this thing wears after a a couple hundred hours of use. Seems like the aluminum on aluminum hinge mechanism may be a weak point.
Would a brass or copper washer help that wear on the follower gear?
So is it best to measure e steps how you did it? 1st extrude without the bowden tube/coupler and get it dialed in. Then put the bowden back on and extrude through the nozzle and then calibrate it again? Some people say just to calibrate without the bowden tube and that's it. Then adjust the flow from there. Getting the final steps when it's extruding through the nozzle wouldn't you have to redo your calibration every time you switch to a different filament or if you switch out a new nozzle?
Thank you 🖤
Do you have to set ESteps on the printer firmware and in Cura?
I got too excited for dual gear extrusion and didn't think about my direct drive set up and the need for a new adapter to make it all fit and work together. I may try to modify the adapter files to make the dual gear work.
On the other hand, I've gotten quite good at taking my Ender 3 apart and putting it back together!
Why not use the SEEMECNC EZR STRUDER
i dont understand these maths at all, 100mm – 30mm is 70mm divided by 100mm ??
Hi Chuck.
I check my Esteps every time I change my filament and I always get a different reading to what it was previous. Any reason why this could be? I'm using the red aluminium extruder by the way.
I have only tested this a few times so far but I am finding that the spring tension is much more crucial than a single gear and that I am having a lot of stringing relative to a comparative amount of retraction. I do have it setup on a direct dive assembly and have managed esteps as per the video
I bought a MINI BMG extruder clone, I wish I had bought this one instead the MINI BMG extruder work great as a drive but it is a ^%%$# to load , this one looks better IMHO.
Thanks Chuck, I just installed the dual drive, new capricorn tubing, new nozzle as my printer hasn't worked properly since April when I loaned to the robotics team. I have a couple of questions as I am trying to optimize my printer. 1. How do I enable control to settings like e-Steps on the printer? I've installed the latest version of TH3D – didn't see any change. Do you have a video on this? 2. You mentioned a tuned printer. Are there other functions that you tune beside e-steps? Do you have a video listing them all? Thanks.
Thanks a lot for video. I want to extrude some amount of filament manually, to calibrate the extruder. But unforunately I do not have this option in my printer's menu. I use ender 3 with upgraded to Marlin 2 BIGTREETECH SKR 1.3 board. Version of firmware is Marlin bugfix-2.0.x. Please give me any suggestions, how to make this menu visible. I read on official website of Marlin, that it should be visible only when printer is not printing, but I do not have it neither just after boot nor after the PLA preheated
Does that work on the Ender 3 Pro? Thinking about the press-fit pulleys
Nice video CHEP, I prefer to calibrate my esteps "on air" without any resistance. Like that is set and forget. And then calibrate each filament flow percentage/multiplier.
1. Temp Tower to check which temperature gets the more consistent layers at 100% flow
2. Cube wuth 0.8 walls, this time with the temperature from the previous step at 100% flow
3. Measure the cube walls in 2 points each side, get the average and deivide the 0.8 by the avergage, that will get me the new flow percentage.
4. Cube wirh 0.8 walls with the temp from step 1, new flow from step 3
6. Save a cura profile for each filament brand and color, or keep a spreadsheet with these values and a main profile!
Done!
Maybe a video on it would be nice 🙂